Prometheus Forum
We are the Gods now
Space Jockey Anatomy and Bio-Mechanics
  • JasonDiazJasonDiaz  (2 like this)
    Colonist
    Wanted to discuss some ideas I was pondering for some time specifically the SJ anatomy, i.e. it's size, blue-grayish pigment etc, and perhaps others can expound on them.

    Size: We notice from trailers that Shaw jumps off the mini ship from a great distance. Some already speculated that the LV-223 has a lower gravity than Earth. I was wondering what environmental impact that has on native/indigenous species living in a low gravity environment and also the dense air. Prehistorical animals where bigger than anything seen today, example dinosaurs while mammals at the time were much smaller. Also the dense unbreathable air. They say animals like the pterodactyl would have a harder time flying in our air now compared to the thicker air in the past. Some scientist have done experiments with this with humming birds that once the air was changed to a thicker more dense air. They simply stopped flying in the experiment and when the air density changed they began to fly again.

    Pigment: At one point we see from trailers a SJ bleeding some bluish fluid or blood, (perhaps also the breathing nature relating to the semi-endoskeleton of the SJ and LV-223.) Hemolymph fills all of the interior (the hemocoel) of the animal's body and surrounds all cells. It contains hemocyanin, a copper-based protein that turns blue in color when oxygenated, instead of the iron-based hemoglobin in red blood cells found in vertebrates, thus giving hemolymph a blue-green color rather than the red color of vertebrate blood. When not oxygenated, hemolymph quickly loses its color and appears grey. The hemolymph of lower arthropods, including most insects, is not used for oxygen transport because these animals respirate directly from their body surfaces (internal and external) to air, but it does contain nutrients such as proteins and sugars.

    Copper is one of those elements that is highlighted white after some photoshopping in the investor page. Perhaps the SJ race is a hybrid humanoid arthropod. The Alien xenos are kinda insects in nature as well. Heard that insects would be much bigger as we see them today and their anatomy can support the extra weight in low gravity environments. The SJ have these holes all over his endoskeleton body, perhaps adaption to the low oxygen. It said that insects have an anatomy that is like a hydraulic system and interconnect and divided by cavities called sinuses, which reminds me of the SJ ship after the 3D projection of the orbs. Also I found it odd (pure speculation) that it appears the SJ can live a long time and perhaps enhances long term stasis. Hemolymph can contain nucleating agents that confer extra cellular freezing protection. 

    (PS: Wild idea, perhaps the SJ ship is a sentient life-form converted ship.)

    "Not too close, I hope"
  • drxs0drxs0  
    Colonist
    I was wondering what environmental impact that has on native/indigenous
    species living in a low gravity environment and also the dense air.


    We do not know for sure they are indigenous.  However....going with the idea that they are a low gravity environment would make them appear stronger since they would have mastered it eons ago.

    The rest of it is very interesting.  I know that "xenos" were thought of like insects.  So perhaps our engineers are colony driven to serve a higher species.  Similar to that of a bee or ant colony.  I do agree however about the breather holes and that they use these to process what they breath. 

    Our thing is we do not know if these species are Carbon based lifeforms.  I will assume they are based on the waterfall.  But what other elements are present in their system that we as humans do not have?
    ~In Space No One Can Hear You Scream~
  • ThothThoth  (1 like this)
    Colonist

    drxs0 said:

    I was wondering what environmental impact that has on native/indigenous
    species living in a low gravity environment and also the dense air.


    We do not know for sure they are indigenous.  However....going with the idea that they are a low gravity environment would make them appear stronger since they would have mastered it eons ago.

    The rest of it is very interesting.  I know that "xenos" were thought of like insects.  So perhaps our engineers are colony driven to serve a higher species.  Similar to that of a bee or ant colony.  I do agree however about the breather holes and that they use these to process what they breath. 

    Our thing is we do not know if these species are Carbon based lifeforms.  I will assume they are based on the waterfall.  But what other elements are present in their system that we as humans do not have?



    One cannot categorically rule out life based on something other than carbon, but it is not likely.  No other elements is as versatile in forming bonds with other elements, which allows it to form very long molecular chains.  However, maybe the SJs are some sort of carbon-silicon hybrid. 
  • drxs0drxs0  
    Colonist
    That was my thinking Thoth.  Perhaps they are silica based...I was speculating...when it comes to things like this I throw all things logical out the window.
    ~In Space No One Can Hear You Scream~
  • ThothThoth  
    Colonist
    drxs0 said:

    That was my thinking Thoth.  Perhaps they are silica based...I was speculating...when it comes to things like this I throw all things logical out the window.



    drxs0:

    Maybe we will find out that there is something about silicon based-life that allows them to be extremely long-lived.  Alternatively, they might be hybrids having a soft chewy inside made up of carbon-based internal organs with an exterior hard candy shell composed of something akin to silicon armor.

    I offered up the speculation before that the bio-goo they find in the ampules may not only be able to organize into carbon-based life but that it might also be used for organizing non-organics, such as silicates, into whatever they like.  Thus, the whole temple complex they are in may have been creating using this material.  Maybe they have one type specifically for carbon-based life form, another type for hybrid carbon-silicon life forms, and yet another for either silicon-based life forms or just manipulation of silicate and other non-organics. 

    One of the things that has led me to conjecture this "dancing rock" Holloway and David observe in the trailers.  These "rocks" and goo could be organic.  However, maybe the "rocks" are in organic and the goo is having it's way with them?  Just a thought.
  • drxs0drxs0  
    Colonist
    That is a really good thought. Different temples for different based life forms.  For the simple purpose of explanation they could be nothing more than over genetic humans for the lack of a better word.  I think its naive of us to assume that they are like us.  The goo could be a template that is set to work with various forms of dna and genetic markers.  Hence why the crew is transformed differently.  Genetics.....need I say more.
    ~In Space No One Can Hear You Scream~
  • ThothThoth  (1 like this)
    Colonist
    drxs0 said:

    The goo could be a template that is set to work with various forms of dna and genetic markers.  Hence why the crew is transformed differently.  Genetics.....need I say more.



    Yes.  I've mentioned something along these lines before regarding the differences in the transformation of Holloway and Fifiled.  This is a bit out there, but what if the SJ, or some other alien race, intermingled with humans at some point.  Alternatively, only some humans have evolved from the SJ experiments on earth.  Next, assume Holloway has a significant part of this blood in his make-up (say certain genes more dominant) as opposed to Fifield, and it is this difference that explains the very different end results.
  • drxs0drxs0  
    Colonist

    Thoth said:

    drxs0 said:

    The goo could be a template that is set to work with various forms of dna and genetic markers.  Hence why the crew is transformed differently.  Genetics.....need I say more.



    Yes.  I've mentioned something along these lines before regarding the differences in the transformation of Holloway and Fifiled.  This is a bit out there, but what if the SJ, or some other alien race, intermingled with humans at some point.  Alternatively, only some humans have evolved from the SJ experiments on earth.  Next, assume Holloway has a significant part of this blood in his make-up (say certain genes more dominant) as opposed to Fifield, and it is this difference that explains the very different end results.


    I will bite your inter species mating for a min.  Assuming they are compatible they have a child who appears to be a normal human.  But with Alien DNA.  As the child reproduces children the DNA is passed onto his offspring.  And on down the line.  So you have 1000 generations of this coupling the Alien DNA would become pushed way back till something activated it.  I am with you on this.  There would have had to have been a female and male off spring of the first inter species mating.
    ~In Space No One Can Hear You Scream~
  • JasonDiazJasonDiaz  (1 like this)
    Colonist
    Wow, never thought of a life form not entirely based on carbon, that's pretty cool drxso. 
    Thoth said:

    drxs0 said:

    That was my thinking Thoth.  Perhaps they are silica based...I was speculating...when it comes to things like this I throw all things logical out the window.



    drxs0:

    Maybe we will find out that there is something about silicon based-life that allows them to be extremely long-lived.  Alternatively, they might be hybrids having a soft chewy inside made up of carbon-based internal organs with an exterior hard candy shell composed of something akin to silicon armor.

    I offered up the speculation before that the bio-goo they find in the ampules may not only be able to organize into carbon-based life but that it might also be used for organizing non-organics, such as silicates, into whatever they like.  Thus, the whole temple complex they are in may have been creating using this material.  Maybe they have one type specifically for carbon-based life form, another type for hybrid carbon-silicon life forms, and yet another for either silicon-based life forms or just manipulation of silicate and other non-organics. 

    One of the things that has led me to conjecture this "dancing rock" Holloway and David observe in the trailers.  These "rocks" and goo could be organic.  However, maybe the "rocks" are in organic and the goo is having it's way with them?  Just a thought.


    Thoth, you gave me an idea of silicon as amorphous metal (without shape) or liquid metal in regards to that dancing rock. "Amorphous metals, also called metallic glasses, consist of metal with a disordered atomic structure. They can be twice as strong as steel. Because of their disordered structure, they can disperse impact energy more effectively than a metal crystal, which has points of weakness. Amorphous metals are made by quickly cooling molten metal before it has a chance to align itself in a crystal pattern. Amorphous metals may the military’s next generation of armor, before they adopt diamondoid armor in mid-century. On the green side of things, amorphous metals have electronic properties that improve the efficiency of power grids by as much as 40%, saving us thousands of tons of fossil fuel emissions."

    I have heard that liquid metals have self healing properties when hit forms right back to it's original shape. Perhaps they have materials or chemistry that we yet have discovered. That goo might be the magic hour material that makes anything.
    "Not too close, I hope"
  • ramp_closingramp_closing  (3 like this)
    Colonist
    "I'm a doctor not a bricklayer."

    My hot dog has a first name. It's es pee yew en kay.
  • ThothThoth  
    Colonist

    drxs0 said:


    Thoth said:

    drxs0 said:

    The goo could be a template that is set to work with various forms of dna and genetic markers.  Hence why the crew is transformed differently.  Genetics.....need I say more.



    Yes.  I've mentioned something along these lines before regarding the differences in the transformation of Holloway and Fifiled.  This is a bit out there, but what if the SJ, or some other alien race, intermingled with humans at some point.  Alternatively, only some humans have evolved from the SJ experiments on earth.  Next, assume Holloway has a significant part of this blood in his make-up (say certain genes more dominant) as opposed to Fifield, and it is this difference that explains the very different end results.


    I will bite your inter species mating for a min.  Assuming they are compatible they have a child who appears to be a normal human.  But with Alien DNA.  As the child reproduces children the DNA is passed onto his offspring.  And on down the line.  So you have 1000 generations of this coupling the Alien DNA would become pushed way back till something activated it.  I am with you on this.  There would have had to have been a female and male off spring of the first inter species mating.


    There could have been multiple interactions over many thousands of years.  Let's say the SJ partially seeded the earth with life.  These seeded humanoids, of which there could have been many all over the planet, intermingled with indigenous hominids.  Overtime there might be just one species - homo sapiens.  However, some of the population have a stronger genetic connection to the SJ introduced species.
  • JasonDiazJasonDiaz  
    Colonist


    Nice find.
    "Not too close, I hope"
  • ThothThoth  
    Colonist
    JasonDiaz:

    You could be on to something with this.  I've read stuff before about similar new materials that are self "healing".  They have the property to repair themselves.  One use would be in electronics devices.  For example, if you dropped a cellphone made of these types of materials it would pretty much instantly repair itself.  And this isn't just with metals either.

  • drxs0drxs0  
    Colonist
    Thoth said:


    drxs0 said:


    Thoth said:

    drxs0 said:

    The goo could be a template that is set to work with various forms of dna and genetic markers.  Hence why the crew is transformed differently.  Genetics.....need I say more.



    Yes.  I've mentioned something along these lines before regarding the differences in the transformation of Holloway and Fifiled.  This is a bit out there, but what if the SJ, or some other alien race, intermingled with humans at some point.  Alternatively, only some humans have evolved from the SJ experiments on earth.  Next, assume Holloway has a significant part of this blood in his make-up (say certain genes more dominant) as opposed to Fifield, and it is this difference that explains the very different end results.


    I will bite your inter species mating for a min.  Assuming they are compatible they have a child who appears to be a normal human.  But with Alien DNA.  As the child reproduces children the DNA is passed onto his offspring.  And on down the line.  So you have 1000 generations of this coupling the Alien DNA would become pushed way back till something activated it.  I am with you on this.  There would have had to have been a female and male off spring of the first inter species mating.


    There could have been multiple interactions over many thousands of years.  Let's say the SJ partially seeded the earth with life.  These seeded humanoids, of which there could have been many all over the planet, intermingled with indigenous hominids.  Overtime there might be just one species - homo sapiens.  However, some of the population have a stronger genetic connection to the SJ introduced species.


    I just said it in shorter terms.  I do agree with you.  It does tend to make sense at this point.  Oddly what made me think of it is an episode from ST:TNG called Genesis.  The crew de-evolve because of a virus.  *Now I am showing my inner geek*
    ~In Space No One Can Hear You Scream~
  • JasonDiazJasonDiaz  (1 like this)
    Colonist
    Thoth said:

    JasonDiaz:

    You could be on to something with this.  I've read stuff before about similar new materials that are self "healing".  They have the property to repair themselves.  One use would be in electronics devices.  For example, if you dropped a cellphone made of these types of materials it would pretty much instantly repair itself.  And this isn't just with metals either.



    Part me feels like that ship is somewhat alive. Also I can't fathom how the Prometheus crashes and literally is obliterated upon impact with the SJ ship, based on the trailers. What makes that ship fly, no type of liquid fuel or fire that I see coming out of that SJ ship and it goes goes down without any visible signs of damage. I think the SJ are made of the same material of that ship and are more in one.
    drxs0 said:



    I just said it in shorter terms.  I do agree with you.  It does tend to make sense at this point.  Oddly what made me think of it is an episode from ST:TNG called Genesis.  The crew de-evolve because of a virus.  *Now I am showing my inner geek*



    drxs0, we need MOAR inner geek.

    In lines what Thoth is saying, perhaps over time the SJ over time evolved differently from earth humans, but do share some similarities but based on contrasting environmental factors took drastic different avenues of evolution. You can see it in the technology too. 
    "Not too close, I hope"
  • drxs0drxs0  
    Colonist
    Exactly.  I am not disagreeing at all.  In fact I love this idea.  We are all SJ deep inside.  That definitely throws a wrench into the works of origin.
    ~In Space No One Can Hear You Scream~
  • NickIsSmartNickIsSmart  (2 like this)
    Flaming_Telepath
    Silicon-based lifeforms has been a topic of science fiction for awhile. Play Masters of Orion II, with the rock people (I forget their actual names). They were silicon-based. They were also lithovores (they ate rocks). I haven't seen the Space Jockey eat anything yet (though I doubt it will be anything like the Rock Biter from The Never-ending Story). Consider what Ash said to Ripley in Alien: "I have confirmed that he has an outer layer of protein polysaccharides. He has a funny habit of shedding his cells and replacing them with polarized silicon."

    Now, polysaccharides are any class of carbohydrates linked together, and carbohydrates contain carbon. However, the creature was then shedding this and replacing them with silicon. Hmm...

    I found an interesting site with a really in-depth article of the life cycle of the facehugger. Here's an excerpt:

    "Once exposed to an atmosphere outside the protective shell of the egg the Facehugger
    begins to "shed" its skin – an outer layer of protein polysaccharides – and replaces its cells with polarized silicon.
    The intensity of replacing cells with polarized silicon seems to have a direct correlation with the harshness of the given environment the creature is in contact with. This process enables the Facehugger to survive in extremely harsh conditions. Conditions that range from unbeatable atmosphere to extreme cold or heat to prolonged submersion in liquid. However, this outer layer of polarized silicon is not as strong or resilient as the exoskeletal epidermis found on the adult form. The Facehugger's dermal layer is easily pierced, and based on the dissection made by Bishop, while dispatched to LV-426, this layer is quite thin. This thinness of skin may be due to biological requirements that necessitate such a development - such as respiration. Given the size of the creature
    and the fact that it not only has to filter atmosphere for itself, but
    for a host organism as well it is very likely that the Alien uses the
    vast majority of it's skin surface for this filtration, as opposed to
    employing large spiracles like the
    adult form
    . As such it seems logical that this phase of the I. raptus
    life cycle utilizes a much more fragile epidermis.


    The implementation
    of polarized silicon may have a second benefit outside of protection
    from the environment: elecromagnetic reception and conduction. Once
    removed from the confines of the egg the Facehugger is apparently without
    means of ingesting food, and most organisms generate energy based on
    food consumption. The I. raptus larva may only generate a nominal portion
    of bioelectric energy, the incorporation of polarized silicon could
    enhance bioelectric energy by generating it via conduction and collection
    of external energy sources. The long parallel chains of silicon are
    aligned to a given geometric plane. The benefit of this type of cellular
    arrangement is that it is able to absorb any and all harmful electromagnetic
    energy, as opposed to allowing it to penetrate the creature's tissue,
    while permitting beneficial electromagnetic energy to pass through.
    The EM could be then used by the Alien to supplement and amplify its
    own bioelectric activity thereby allowing to survive without ingestion.
    "

    Here's the link to the site: http://www.anchorpointessays.com/stage1.html

    "Oh, hi, Mark."
  • SargeISdeadSargeISdead  
    Colonist

    Silicon-based lifeforms has been a topic of science fiction for awhile. Play Masters of Orion II, with the rock people (I forget their actual names). They were silicon-based. They were also lithovores (they ate rocks). I haven't seen the Space Jockey eat anything yet (though I doubt it will be anything like the Rock Biter from The Never-ending Story). Consider what Ash said to Ripley in Alien: "I have confirmed that he has an outer layer of protein polysaccharides. He has a funny habit of shedding his cells and replacing them with polarized silicon."

    Now, polysaccharides are any class of carbohydrates linked together, and carbohydrates contain carbon. However, the creature was then shedding this and replacing them with silicon. Hmm...

    I found an interesting site with a really in-depth article of the life cycle of the facehugger. Here's an excerpt:

    "Once exposed to an atmosphere outside the protective shell of the egg the Facehugger
    begins to "shed" its skin – an outer layer of protein polysaccharides – and replaces its cells with polarized silicon.
    The intensity of replacing cells with polarized silicon seems to have a direct correlation with the harshness of the given environment the creature is in contact with. This process enables the Facehugger to survive in extremely harsh conditions. Conditions that range from unbeatable atmosphere to extreme cold or heat to prolonged submersion in liquid. However, this outer layer of polarized silicon is not as strong or resilient as the exoskeletal epidermis found on the adult form. The Facehugger's dermal layer is easily pierced, and based on the dissection made by Bishop, while dispatched to LV-426, this layer is quite thin. This thinness of skin may be due to biological requirements that necessitate such a development - such as respiration. Given the size of the creature
    and the fact that it not only has to filter atmosphere for itself, but
    for a host organism as well it is very likely that the Alien uses the
    vast majority of it's skin surface for this filtration, as opposed to
    employing large spiracles like the
    adult form
    . As such it seems logical that this phase of the I. raptus
    life cycle utilizes a much more fragile epidermis.


    The implementation
    of polarized silicon may have a second benefit outside of protection
    from the environment: elecromagnetic reception and conduction. Once
    removed from the confines of the egg the Facehugger is apparently without
    means of ingesting food, and most organisms generate energy based on
    food consumption. The I. raptus larva may only generate a nominal portion
    of bioelectric energy, the incorporation of polarized silicon could
    enhance bioelectric energy by generating it via conduction and collection
    of external energy sources. The long parallel chains of silicon are
    aligned to a given geometric plane. The benefit of this type of cellular
    arrangement is that it is able to absorb any and all harmful electromagnetic
    energy, as opposed to allowing it to penetrate the creature's tissue,
    while permitting beneficial electromagnetic energy to pass through.
    The EM could be then used by the Alien to supplement and amplify its
    own bioelectric activity thereby allowing to survive without ingestion.
    "

    Here's the link to the site: http://www.anchorpointessays.com/stage1.html



    Nice find, I was actually just about to post something regarding the facehugger because I remembered seeing somewhere it had a silicone type "skin" or something along those lines.
    Do you know the difference between Justice and Punishment?
  • NickIsSmartNickIsSmart  
    Flaming_Telepath
    You can find the coolest shit with Google. It also makes a nice dictionary. My real one is collecting dust, sadly. To think that I used to read it for fun! : P
    "Oh, hi, Mark."
  • rabidrangerrabidranger  
    Colonist
    I think we'll find there are going to be striking biological similarities between the xenos and Space Jockeys.
  • JasonDiazJasonDiaz  (1 like this)
    Colonist
    Well drsx0 mentioned that the SJ could possibly be androgynous. No female SJs or one SJ queen, ;)
    "Not too close, I hope"
  • tgbyhntgbyhn  
    Colonist
     I was wondering what environmental impact that has on native/indigenous species living in a low gravity environment and also the dense air. Prehistorical animals where bigger than anything seen today, example dinosaurs while mammals at the time were much smaller. Also the dense unbreathable air.

    A atmosphere with greater oxygen content in earth's prehistoric past has led to arthropods (insects, etc.) much larger than periods with lower oxygen content, such as today, would allow. 

     Perhaps they are silica based...I was speculating...when it comes to things like this I throw all things logical out the window.

    The Earth's crust is 60% silica.  Carbon, I think, is a fraction of 1%. Earth would be as good a candidate as any for silicon-based life, if it is possible.  But, it doesn't exist here.

  • kjohnson26kjohnson26  
    Colonist
    I think you have that backwards; CO2 content of atmosphere was much higher during the age of the dinosaurs, O2 content was probably close to the same as it is now. CO2 content was reduced by its incorporation into primarily plants and fraction of the dead plant material became buried. The buried bio material was carried deep underground which became coal and oil. Some of that biomass is locked in the permafrost of the arctic region. There was a great deal of plant life for plant eating dinosaurs to consume and larger body mass makes it more easy to temperature regulate between day and night trending for natural selection of big body types. Lots of big plant eaters made large meat eaters possible.
  • ThothThoth  (1 like this)
    Colonist

    I think you have that backwards; CO2 content of atmosphere was much higher during the age of the dinosaurs, O2 content was probably close to the same as it is now. CO2 content was reduced by its incorporation into primarily plants and fraction of the dead plant material became buried. The buried bio material was carried deep underground which became coal and oil. Some of that biomass is locked in the permafrost of the arctic region. There was a great deal of plant life for plant eating dinosaurs to consume and larger body mass makes it more easy to temperature regulate between day and night trending for natural selection of big body types. Lots of big plant eaters made large meat eaters possible.



    Kjohnson:

    Actually I think tgbyhn is correct, at least in so far as there proposed theories are concerned.  Earth's primitive atmosphere was completely devoid of oxygen.  The content has risen and stabilized at the current levels of 21%..  However, there has been widespread speculation that atmospheric hyperoxia (some have suggested atmospheric concentrations of up to 35%) during the Palaeozoic was the major factor that made the evolution of large insects possible.  However, this theory has been challenged recently because of uncertainties about insect physiology.
  • rabidrangerrabidranger  
    Colonist
    Without delving too deep into the actual science of it all I would like to see some sort of explanation as to why the Space Jockeys are so massive and such.
  • JasonDiazJasonDiaz  
    Colonist

    Without delving too deep into the actual science of it all I would like to see some sort of explanation as to why the Space Jockeys are so massive and such.



    That's what I'm saying, they are humanoid but are larger. I'm 6'0 feet, the same as the Fass, and that SJ is at least 12-15 feet tall. I tend to size things by the height of a basketball hoop. Was wondering, I think the SJ is taller than the queen in Aliens.
    "Not too close, I hope"

Welcome!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Login with Facebook Sign In with Google Sign In with OpenID

Forum Tips

• Bookmark All Discussions to catch all of the action.
• Introduce yourself here.
• Click your username for more options.
Dismiss to unsticky discussions.
Imgur for hosting images.
• Email: prometheusforum@gmail.com
• More forum tips.