Prometheus Forum
We are the Gods now
‘Discover Prometheus’ with these New Images!
  • VodiVodi  (1 like this)
    Predator
    Perhaps an image of her dead father?
    Do you mean something that personal?

    Or is that too mystical?

    She had tears of joy as she looked up at the cave walls on Earth.
    Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.
  • kjohnson26kjohnson26  (2 like this)
    Colonist
    The hi-res image show that the central chamber at the bottom of the shaft is almost certainly the Ampoule Room with the Big Head. The back of the head and its neck can be made out. The head seems to be facing in the same direction as the head/face on the top of the temple if the structure at the top represents such at the top of the cgi temple display.


    image
  • ThothThoth  
    Colonist

    The hi-res image show that the central chamber at the bottom of the shaft is almost certainly the Ampoule Room with the Big Head. The back of the head and its neck can be made out. The head seems to be facing in the same direction as the head/face on the top of the temple if the structure at the top represents such at the top of the cgi temple display.




    Yes.  The resolution on this is much better than the previous images, and if that isn't the back of great head then it's difficult to understand what it could be.
  • MustangJeffMustangJeff  (1 like this)
    Colonist

    Looking at that second image...


    I'm even more confident that my theory about the saucer from the waterfall being parked in the valley is probably correct. :)

  • ummesterummester  (1 like this)
    AssFlower
    Vodi said:

    Perhaps an image of her dead father?
    Do you mean something that personal?

    Or is that too mystical?

    She had tears of joy as she looked up at the cave walls on Earth.




    Check out this logic, explaining tears, cuddles, the murals etc - see what you think

    1. Shaw develops belief in God to get her through life.

    2. Shaw can't have children but loves Holloway.

    3. Find starmap which is path to creators.

    4. Prometheus goes to SJ homeworld that has been destroyed by xeno virus - starmap was warning not to go there but no-one knows that.

    5. Science crew finds murals on Big Head roof that show them jockeys/creators made life from xeno goo - 'Prometheus are you seeing this. They're changing' (more crying) 'Changing into what? They were right'

    6. Some of science crew become infected with xeno goo - including Holloway.

    7. Holloway makes Shaw pregnant because of xeno goo - Shaw thinks it is a gift from God.

    8. Things go a bit bad with infected crew members.

    9. Shaw ends up in medlab.

    10. Doctor realises preganacy isn't normal but can't remove offspring without killing Shaw

    11. Doctor provides nutrients to cater for fast xeno gestation in effort to save Shaw.

    12. Shaws mind is taken over by the xeno as it grows.

    13. Shaw busts out of medlab, as orgainsim inside her does not want to be captured.

    14. Cuddles c-section - organism makes shaw put herself through pain so it can live. It isn't a full xeno, it's a human xeno hybrid (half of it is Holloways sperm) - it can't bust out of a body like a chestburster, it isn't a developed xeno egg type that can utilize a male of female host via facehugger mouth rape.

    16. Shaw at mirror - crisis of faith.

    17. Cuddles becoming Ass Flower, tentacle hits window.

    18. Shaw tries to kill Ass Flower - Shaw becoming warrior.

    Suck fuddlety!
  • kjohnson26kjohnson26  (2 like this)
    Colonist
    I think that Shaw is probably not seeing her father in the ceiling mural (if the tears are actually related to that image or something else that forms) but just that there is an image of something powerful and humanoid.
  • terrapinbearterrapinbear  
    Colonist
    ummester said:

    Vodi said:

    Perhaps an image of her dead father?
    Do you mean something that personal?

    Or is that too mystical?

    She had tears of joy as she looked up at the cave walls on Earth.




    Check out this logic, explaining tears, cuddles, the murals etc - see what you think

    1. Shaw develops belief in God to get her through life.

    2. Shaw can't have children but loves Holloway.

    3. Find starmap which is path to creators and secret hope of being rewarded with pregancy for Shaw (thats why she is smiling).

    4. Prometheus goes to SJ homeworld that has been destroyed by xeno virus - starmap was warning not to go there but no-one knows that.

    5. Science crew finds murals on Big Head roof that show them jockeys/creators made life from xeno goo - 'Prometheus are you seeing this. They're changing' (more crying) 'Changing into what? They were right'

    6. Some of science crew become infected with xeno goo - including Holloway.

    7. Holloway makes Shaw pregnant because of xeno goo - Shaw thinks it is a gift from God.

    8. Things go a bit bad with infected crew members.

    9. Shaw ends up in medlab.

    10. Doctor realises preganacy isn't normal but can't remove offspring without killing Shaw

    11. Doctor provides nutrients to cater for fast xeno gestation in effort to save Shaw.

    12. Shaws mind is taken over by the xeno as it grows.

    13. Shaw busts out of medlab, as orgainsim inside her does not want to be captured.

    14. Cuddles c-section - organism makes shaw put herself through pain so it can live. It isn't a full xeno, it's a human xeno hybrid (half of it is Holloways sperm) - it can't bust out of a body like a chestburster, it isn't a developed xeno egg type that can utilize a male of female host via facehugger mouth rape.

    16. Shaw at mirror - crisis of faith.

    17. Cuddles becoming Ass Flower, tentacle hits window.

    18. Shaw tries to kill Ass Flower - Shaw becoming warrior.



    I actually this line of thought.  However, I would replace 'xeno' with 'SJ' to align it with the current understanding that there will be no xenos in Prometheus.
    =\/\/= The Prometheus Has Landed! =\/\/=
  • ummesterummester  
    AssFlower

    terrapinbear,

    I'm going with the line of reasoning that the virus or tech that created the xeno lifeform is what destroyed the SJ homeworld and made them a nomadic saucer race.

    The xeno tech evolves, like a macro virus, depending on what stage of evolution it is at - which allows a fully evolved facehugger to insert an egg that turns into a chestburster adapted to it's host

    What is on LV226 is the base xeno virus though - dormant and un-evolved - all that remains (possibly) after the homeworld was wiped out

    The 3rd act will likely have other surprises - such as re-animated SJs or even a reanimated SJ xeno (big mofo) but the goo our intrepid scientists interact with is the un-evolved weapon IMO - so xeno is what it is

    Suck fuddlety!
  • terrapinbearterrapinbear  (1 like this)
    Colonist
    ummester said:

    terrapinbear,

    I'm going with the line of reasoning that the virus or tech that created the xeno lifeform is what destroyed the SJ homeworld and made them a nomodic saucer race.

    The xeno tech evolves, like a macro virus, depending on what stage of evolution it is at - which allows a fully evolved facehugger to insert an egg that turns into a chestburster adapted to it's host

    What is on LV226 is the base xeno virus though - dormant and un-evolved - all that remains (possibly) after the homeworld was wiped out

    The 3rd act will likely have other surprises - such as re-animated SJs or even a reanimated SJ xeno (big mofo) but the goo our intrepid scientists interact with is the un-evolved weapon IMO - so xeno is what it is



    Understood.  When I see the word "xeno" in the same sentence as Prometheus related material I start to cringe.  I like to think of the goo as biomechanical nano stuff.
    =\/\/= The Prometheus Has Landed! =\/\/=
  • ThothThoth  
    Colonist
    ummester said:


    1. Shaw develops belief in God to get her through life.

    2. Shaw can't have children but loves Holloway.

    3. Find starmap which is path to creators and secret hope of being rewarded with pregancy for Shaw (thats why she is smiling).

    4. Prometheus goes to SJ homeworld that has been destroyed by xeno virus - starmap was warning not to go there but no-one knows that.

    5. Science crew finds murals on Big Head roof that show them jockeys/creators made life from xeno goo - 'Prometheus are you seeing this. They're changing' (more crying) 'Changing into what? They were right'

    6. Some of science crew become infected with xeno goo - including Holloway.

    7. Holloway makes Shaw pregnant because of xeno goo - Shaw thinks it is a gift from God.

    8. Things go a bit bad with infected crew members.

    9. Shaw ends up in medlab.

    10. Doctor realises preganacy isn't normal but can't remove offspring without killing Shaw

    11. Doctor provides nutrients to cater for fast xeno gestation in effort to save Shaw.

    12. Shaws mind is taken over by the xeno as it grows.

    13. Shaw busts out of medlab, as orgainsim inside her does not want to be captured.

    14. Cuddles c-section - organism makes shaw put herself through pain so it can live. It isn't a full xeno, it's a human xeno hybrid (half of it is Holloways sperm) - it can't bust out of a body like a chestburster, it isn't a developed xeno egg type that can utilize a male of female host via facehugger mouth rape.

    16. Shaw at mirror - crisis of faith.

    17. Cuddles becoming Ass Flower, tentacle hits window.

    18. Shaw tries to kill Ass Flower - Shaw becoming warrior.



    (3) I think it highly unlikely that Shaw believes she will be rewarded with pregnancy.
    (12)  Having the Xeno's mind take over Shaw's is certainly novel, but I don't see that happening.  If it did take over then it's "take over" is less than complete.  Maybe something like influencing her is more likely, but I still don't buy that.
    (13) This all assumes the xeno growing in her knows what's going on.  Could be, but it just doesn't feel right. (14)  This thing is supposedly able to adapt to its host.  It it didn't, then it would prematurely kill the host and itself along with it.  So, assuming it has adjusted to the host and it is ready to come out, why would it need Shaw to help her with this?  Why wouldn't it just pop out on it's own?
    (16)  Absolutely disagree with this. She is simply worried about whether or not her health insurance is going to cover the c-section since it was clearly out of network.  


  • ummesterummester  
    AssFlower

    ummester said:

    terrapinbear,

    I'm going with the line of reasoning that the virus or tech that created the xeno lifeform is what destroyed the SJ homeworld and made them a nomodic saucer race.

    The xeno tech evolves, like a macro virus, depending on what stage of evolution it is at - which allows a fully evolved facehugger to insert an egg that turns into a chestburster adapted to it's host

    What is on LV226 is the base xeno virus though - dormant and un-evolved - all that remains (possibly) after the homeworld was wiped out

    The 3rd act will likely have other surprises - such as re-animated SJs or even a reanimated SJ xeno (big mofo) but the goo our intrepid scientists interact with is the un-evolved weapon IMO - so xeno is what it is



    Understood.  When I see the word "xeno" in the same sentence as Prometheus related material I start to cringe.  I like to think of the goo as biomechanical nano stuff.




    I know but I've thought on it for a while now. The post about the derelicts being seeding vessels made such logical sense to me that other things seemed to click.

    Derelicts are like the SJ version of a nuke - their ultimate weapon in something deployable. But, if a derelict, or the base virus, has no life to interact with, it just goes dormant.

    Suck fuddlety!
  • terrapinbearterrapinbear  
    Colonist
    Thoth said:

    ummester said:


    1. Shaw develops belief in God to get her through life.

    2. Shaw can't have children but loves Holloway.

    3. Find starmap which is path to creators and secret hope of being rewarded with pregancy for Shaw (thats why she is smiling).

    4. Prometheus goes to SJ homeworld that has been destroyed by xeno virus - starmap was warning not to go there but no-one knows that.

    5. Science crew finds murals on Big Head roof that show them jockeys/creators made life from xeno goo - 'Prometheus are you seeing this. They're changing' (more crying) 'Changing into what? They were right'

    6. Some of science crew become infected with xeno goo - including Holloway.

    7. Holloway makes Shaw pregnant because of xeno goo - Shaw thinks it is a gift from God.

    8. Things go a bit bad with infected crew members.

    9. Shaw ends up in medlab.

    10. Doctor realises preganacy isn't normal but can't remove offspring without killing Shaw

    11. Doctor provides nutrients to cater for fast xeno gestation in effort to save Shaw.

    12. Shaws mind is taken over by the xeno as it grows.

    13. Shaw busts out of medlab, as orgainsim inside her does not want to be captured.

    14. Cuddles c-section - organism makes shaw put herself through pain so it can live. It isn't a full xeno, it's a human xeno hybrid (half of it is Holloways sperm) - it can't bust out of a body like a chestburster, it isn't a developed xeno egg type that can utilize a male of female host via facehugger mouth rape.

    16. Shaw at mirror - crisis of faith.

    17. Cuddles becoming Ass Flower, tentacle hits window.

    18. Shaw tries to kill Ass Flower - Shaw becoming warrior.



    (3) I think it highly unlikely that Shaw believes she will be rewarded with pregnancy.
    (12)  Having the Xeno's mind take over Shaw's is certainly novel, but I don't see that happening.  If it did take over then it's "take over" is less than complete.  Maybe something like influencing her is more likely, but I still don't buy that.
    (13) This all assumes the xeno growing in her knows what's going on.  Could be, but it just doesn't feel right. (14)  This thing is supposedly able to adapt to its host.  It it didn't, then it would prematurely kill the host and itself along with it.  So, assuming it has adjusted to the host and it is ready to come out, why would it need Shaw to help her with this?  Why wouldn't it just pop out on it's own?
    (16)  Absolutely disagree with this. She is simply worried about whether or not her health insurance is going to cover the c-section since it was clearly out of network.  




    Yes number 3 is a bit far fetched.
    And again, replace the word Xeno.  Ridley Scott said "There will be no Xenomorph in Prometheus".  Please find a different term. The Space Jockeys are biomechanical.  The Xenomorph is biomechanical.  So cuddles can be biomechanical too without being a hybrid human/xenomorph.  But if you really think a Xenomorph will be in the film, that is your decision.
    =\/\/= The Prometheus Has Landed! =\/\/=
  • ummesterummester  
    AssFlower
    Thoth said:

    ummester said:

    (3) I think it highly unlikely that Shaw believes she will be rewarded with pregnancy.
    (12)  Having the Xeno's mind take over Shaw's is certainly novel, but I don't see that happening.  If it did take over then it's "take over" is less than complete.  Maybe something like influencing her is more likely, but I still don't buy that.
    (13) This all assumes the xeno growing in her knows what's going on.  Could be, but it just doesn't feel right. (14)  This thing is supposedly able to adapt to its host.  It it didn't, then it would prematurely kill the host and itself along with it.  So, assuming it has adjusted to the host and it is ready to come out, why would it need Shaw to help her with this?  Why wouldn't it just pop out on it's own?
    (16)  Absolutely disagree with this. She is simply worried about whether or not her health insurance is going to cover the c-section since it was clearly out of network.  




    Love 16 Thoth - anything to save a buck:)

    (3) I'm willing to conceed that - but I think the notion, if it is real, will be re-enforced to increase the horror of it going bad.

    (12) yes, influence is a much better word, I shall ammend. What is nasty about influence is that she can still feel it - she just can't stop doing it.

    (13) Symbiotic - to a certain degree. Wasn't that term used in Alien to describe one evolutionary form of the Starbeast?

    (14) It doesn't have an exoskeleton - It's not that evolved. it would damage itself with forced exit. I guess it could try and eat it's way out? I am willing to conceed that she could cut it out in the nick of time - it could start pushing and that is why she throws herself in the automated med tube without preperation.

    This does raise the question, why doesn't she let the good doctor take it out?

    A possible answer would be that her baby's influence makes her slip in and out of control.

     

    Suck fuddlety!
  • ummesterummester  
    AssFlower

    Thoth said:

    ummester said:


    1. Shaw develops belief in God to get her through life.

    2. Shaw can't have children but loves Holloway.

    3. Find starmap which is path to creators and secret hope of being rewarded with pregancy for Shaw (thats why she is smiling).

    4. Prometheus goes to SJ homeworld that has been destroyed by xeno virus - starmap was warning not to go there but no-one knows that.

    5. Science crew finds murals on Big Head roof that show them jockeys/creators made life from xeno goo - 'Prometheus are you seeing this. They're changing' (more crying) 'Changing into what? They were right'

    6. Some of science crew become infected with xeno goo - including Holloway.

    7. Holloway makes Shaw pregnant because of xeno goo - Shaw thinks it is a gift from God.

    8. Things go a bit bad with infected crew members.

    9. Shaw ends up in medlab.

    10. Doctor realises preganacy isn't normal but can't remove offspring without killing Shaw

    11. Doctor provides nutrients to cater for fast xeno gestation in effort to save Shaw.

    12. Shaws mind is taken over by the xeno as it grows.

    13. Shaw busts out of medlab, as orgainsim inside her does not want to be captured.

    14. Cuddles c-section - organism makes shaw put herself through pain so it can live. It isn't a full xeno, it's a human xeno hybrid (half of it is Holloways sperm) - it can't bust out of a body like a chestburster, it isn't a developed xeno egg type that can utilize a male of female host via facehugger mouth rape.

    16. Shaw at mirror - crisis of faith.

    17. Cuddles becoming Ass Flower, tentacle hits window.

    18. Shaw tries to kill Ass Flower - Shaw becoming warrior.



    (3) I think it highly unlikely that Shaw believes she will be rewarded with pregnancy.
    (12)  Having the Xeno's mind take over Shaw's is certainly novel, but I don't see that happening.  If it did take over then it's "take over" is less than complete.  Maybe something like influencing her is more likely, but I still don't buy that.
    (13) This all assumes the xeno growing in her knows what's going on.  Could be, but it just doesn't feel right. (14)  This thing is supposedly able to adapt to its host.  It it didn't, then it would prematurely kill the host and itself along with it.  So, assuming it has adjusted to the host and it is ready to come out, why would it need Shaw to help her with this?  Why wouldn't it just pop out on it's own?
    (16)  Absolutely disagree with this. She is simply worried about whether or not her health insurance is going to cover the c-section since it was clearly out of network.  




    Yes number 3 is a bit far fetched.
    And again, replace the word Xeno.  Ridley Scott said "There will be no Xenomorph in Prometheus".  Please find a different term. The Space Jockeys are biomechanical.  The Xenomorph is biomechanical.  So cuddles can be biomechanical too without being a hybrid human/xenomorph.  But if you really think a Xenomorph will be in the film, that is your decision.




    Ok, 3 is gone - concensus is bad on that one:)

    ok, i'll replace it with bio weapon, is that good? Or SJ weapon?

    I don't think the SJs are actually going to be bad - I did, originally, but I think that would lead to too convoluted a plot. The star map is a deliberate trap, their motives are to use us as test subjects on their weapons?

    Why does their planet look so - abandoned?

    Suck fuddlety!
  • terrapinbearterrapinbear  
    Colonist
    ummester said:

    Thoth said:

    ummester said:


    1. Shaw develops belief in God to get her through life.

    2. Shaw can't have children but loves Holloway.

    3. Find starmap which is path to creators and secret hope of being rewarded with pregancy for Shaw (thats why she is smiling).

    4. Prometheus goes to SJ homeworld that has been destroyed by xeno virus - starmap was warning not to go there but no-one knows that.

    5. Science crew finds murals on Big Head roof that show them jockeys/creators made life from xeno goo - 'Prometheus are you seeing this. They're changing' (more crying) 'Changing into what? They were right'

    6. Some of science crew become infected with xeno goo - including Holloway.

    7. Holloway makes Shaw pregnant because of xeno goo - Shaw thinks it is a gift from God.

    8. Things go a bit bad with infected crew members.

    9. Shaw ends up in medlab.

    10. Doctor realises preganacy isn't normal but can't remove offspring without killing Shaw

    11. Doctor provides nutrients to cater for fast xeno gestation in effort to save Shaw.

    12. Shaws mind is taken over by the xeno as it grows.

    13. Shaw busts out of medlab, as orgainsim inside her does not want to be captured.

    14. Cuddles c-section - organism makes shaw put herself through pain so it can live. It isn't a full xeno, it's a human xeno hybrid (half of it is Holloways sperm) - it can't bust out of a body like a chestburster, it isn't a developed xeno egg type that can utilize a male of female host via facehugger mouth rape.

    16. Shaw at mirror - crisis of faith.

    17. Cuddles becoming Ass Flower, tentacle hits window.

    18. Shaw tries to kill Ass Flower - Shaw becoming warrior.



    (3) I think it highly unlikely that Shaw believes she will be rewarded with pregnancy.
    (12)  Having the Xeno's mind take over Shaw's is certainly novel, but I don't see that happening.  If it did take over then it's "take over" is less than complete.  Maybe something like influencing her is more likely, but I still don't buy that.
    (13) This all assumes the xeno growing in her knows what's going on.  Could be, but it just doesn't feel right. (14)  This thing is supposedly able to adapt to its host.  It it didn't, then it would prematurely kill the host and itself along with it.  So, assuming it has adjusted to the host and it is ready to come out, why would it need Shaw to help her with this?  Why wouldn't it just pop out on it's own?
    (16)  Absolutely disagree with this. She is simply worried about whether or not her health insurance is going to cover the c-section since it was clearly out of network.  




    Yes number 3 is a bit far fetched.
    And again, replace the word Xeno.  Ridley Scott said "There will be no Xenomorph in Prometheus".  Please find a different term. The Space Jockeys are biomechanical.  The Xenomorph is biomechanical.  So cuddles can be biomechanical too without being a hybrid human/xenomorph.  But if you really think a Xenomorph will be in the film, that is your decision.




    Ok, 3 is gone - concensus is bad on that one:)

    ok, i'll replace it with bio weapon, is that good? Or SJ weapon?

    I don't think the SJs are actually going to be bad - I did, originally, but I think that would lead to too convoluted a plot. The star map is a deliberate trap, their motives are to use us as test subjects on their weapons?

    Why does their planet look so - abandoned?



    Why not replace "xeno goo" with "biomech goo" and "xeno weapon" with "biomech weapon"?  I like the contraction of biomechanical with "biomech".  Ummester, you got your own, free editor!
    =\/\/= The Prometheus Has Landed! =\/\/=
  • ummesterummester  
    AssFlower

    I've always wanted one of those.

    I'm trying to generate a plot, from all the pieces we have, that has no errors in it. So any errors that are noticed, i appreciate knowing about.

    Ridley did say there is alien DNA in the last 7 mins, so a hybrid could fit that bill. Trouble is, if ass flower is the kicker (you know, like the alien in narcissus, or the queen on sulaco) then all the other stuff like the coissant being rammed must come before - which I'm not sure will happen.

    What do you think about that, cuddles first or coissant launch first?

    If there is only one ship - cuddles has to come first. If there are two, cuddles can be a kicker.

    I need to move on from cuddles and do a logic of the one ship vs two ships thing to try and work that out:)

    Re the ships - the second shot in this thread clearly shows Prometheus leaving the planet - is it on it's ramming mission? How big is that ship? has anyone got a scale concept next to a human?

    Suck fuddlety!
  • kjohnson26kjohnson26  
    Colonist
    The second figure with the obvious humanoid could be another being/humanoid that is in a position of subjugation or torture. There seem to be two knees and a head. It could be interpreted as a humanoid being being forced into a kneeling position with something being done to the back of its head or someone is kneeling and holding the subjugated being down on their back with something being done to its face. The image has been adjusted a bit to better emphasize details.

    image
  • ummesterummester  
    AssFlower
    could be kj - but if it is his right arm is all biomeched up?
    Suck fuddlety!
  • First off - great pictures and thanks for uploading them.

    Next - fun with Adobe Illustrator. Some interesting shapes going on in the ceiling. Let's trace over them quickly, being sure to only draw what we can see, and not what we think we can see. In the first picture, the dotted line only represents what could be there. 

    image

    image

    Just my interpretation of a couple of the shapes there. 
  • ThothThoth  
    Colonist
    Kjohnson:

    What you have indicated as knees look like rocks to me, especially the one on the right.  Problem with that is why would there be rocks.  Also, I don't see the end.  However, I do see what looks like ribs further back.

    One his right chest (left to the viewer) there is was appears to be a scar or suture to the left (his right) of the sternum and extending up to his right (our left) collar bone.  Not sure what to make of that.

    As for his right arm, maybe he's got is hand caught in a garbage disposal? One things for sure, whoever he is, he doesn't appear to be in agony.
  • kjohnson26kjohnson26  
    Colonist
    I think this could represent some kind of conflict either between the alien humanoid factions or between the alien humanoids and another alien race. A civil war or a war of conquest. The right arm does not look so much bio-mechanical but could be he is holding something at the end of his arm that is bio-mechanical and he is applying it to the subjugated figure or he is ripping a bio-mechanical device/mask from the face of the other figure. It could be the mural image is not yet fully formed in the still and this is some kind of half-formed image. 
  • ThothThoth  
    Colonist
    Kjohnson:

    It's very likely that the image is not yet completely forms.  Also, the final result may not be a static image but rather as an animated process.

    As to what it this represents, that's anybody's guess.  It could be an alien Prometheus stealing the fire of the gods (their bio goo) to use e for humanities benefit. If could depict the moment of transformation of the original SJ race into their current state.
  • kjohnson26kjohnson26  
    Colonist
    Its all speculation.
  • terrapinbearterrapinbear  (1 like this)
    Colonist
    Here's my understanding of the left side of the painting on the Big Head ceiling 

    image
    =\/\/= The Prometheus Has Landed! =\/\/=
  • ummesterummester  
    AssFlower

    terrapin,

    strange organism to have it's shoulder lower than it's ribs?

    Suck fuddlety!

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