Prometheus Forum
We are the Gods now
Why did David do that with the drink?
  • PluviaPluvia  
    Colonist
    One thing I wondered is why did he just ignore him for the rest of the movie? Or not tell anyone about Shaw's alien?
  • RobThomRobThom  
    Colonist
    Weylan told him to try harder to find an answer to immortality.

    He was seeing what the effect of the goo would be on a human.

    Was it food of the gods?

    I dont think they had figured out that it was a weapon yet.
  • BonusituationBonusituation  
    Like_A_Boss
    David had no agenda.  Weyland had an agenda and David was doing everything to satisfy the requests/commands of Weyland.  Even unethical things.  David was a proxy character for Weyland who was off screen most of the time.

    Now David is free.  Will have have his own agendas based on free will?  Hopefully we find out.
    We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space.
  • BaronVonAwsmBaronVonAwsm  
    Colonist

    I've only read the OP, so I might be repeating but I want to dump my own thoughts prior to reading what others think...

    I think David is executing multiple strands of behaviour based on multiple sources of impetus. One source for sure is seeming obedience to Weyland. I think another source is an inherent instability that leads him to be somewhat evil. He is morbidly curious about everything real and possible related to this trip to LV223. I believe his infecting of Holloway stems from a thought patten similar to "well this would be interesting to combine with a human" and "while I'm at it, let's see if I can get this condescending smarty-pants to make some sort of statement which can be ironically construed as permission to do this to him".

    He did it because he has a twisted, unstable apsect to his being unrelated to what anyone else wants from him. He spends time satisfyng this aspect of himself while simultaneously appearing like he is adhering to the directives of others. He is simultaneously a (seemingly) loyal servant and a loose cannon.

  • 1lasthope1lasthope  
    Colonist
    "How far are you willing to go?"

    "Plop Plop, fizz fizz oh what a relief it is."
    "Your joy at discovering that there is indeed meaning and purpose to your life is short-lived when you find it involves a bunch of difficult stuff that isn't a lot of fun."
  • SlimSlim  
    Colonist

    David had no agenda.  Weyland had an agenda and David was doing everything to satisfy the requests/commands of Weyland.  Even unethical things.  David was a proxy character for Weyland who was off screen most of the time.


    Now David is free.  Will have have his own agendas based on free will?  Hopefully we find out.


    He's in no way a Weyland's proxy. And that's the reason why everyone is not sure what did he tell to Engineer. Otherwise it would be no-brainer. You just try to push him it that role because he's a goddamn robot and shouldn't be able to act on his own. The only scene, which seems to be demeaning is the one with feet washing, but I guess it can't be worse then holding black nightmare on your fingertips. ;-)
    Also notice that seeing David being ripped apart is much more painful for the audience then watching Weyland die. Even after all what he has done.
  • RobThomRobThom  
    Colonist
    Slim said:



    He's in no way a Weyland's proxy. And that's the reason why everyone is not sure what did he tell to Engineer.

    Eh, I'm pretty sure thats what Weylan built him and brought him for.

    And its just as likely as anything that he told the engineer exactly what Weylan told him to say,
    that he wants to be immortal.
  • BaronVonAwsmBaronVonAwsm  (2 like this)
    Colonist

    I too doubt that David said anything other than what he was supposed to say. Personally, I don't think it matters what was said. The engineer was always going to kill them all. He had no interest in what anyone had to say, the fact they were there and the fact they could actually speak his language. He wanted them dead and he wanted to resume his mission. That is all that was important to him.

     

  • RobThomRobThom  
    Colonist

    Personally, I don't think it matters what was said. The engineer was always going to kill them all.

    I'm pretty sure that SJ is a military "destroyer" SJ.
    A separate caste in SJ society from the sacrifice SJ.

    After David asks him that he's probably just like:

    " Whaaa... thats not what I do dude. Here I'll show you!"

  • aldoaldo  
    Colonist
    My feelings were that david and holloways relationship was closer and there views didnt match. holloway tried to make um feel less human. with the way that he questioned him wearing the helmet and other things.

    but i also feel that david waited till holloway said that hed do anything that it would take to get the result he wanted and david followed suit. plus holloway shouldnt have took a drink from him once he put his finger in it lol
  • SkylarSkylar  (2 like this)
    Colonist
    David did what he did because he was more human than we thought. 

    From the very beginning of the film when we are introduced to David we notice him combing his hair and eating food- though he is a robot and none of these things matter. David was made to be as human as possible, and he says this when Holloway asks him why was he putting on a helmet when he didn't need one.  Also you may have noticed that David does not talk like a robot or even as if programmed at all. What intrigued me about David was if he was just a Robot unable to grasp human concepts such as emotion then why; when he speaks, he speaks with sarcasm and etc... with an emotional undertone. 

    I think what David did to Doc. Holloway was purely out of spite. He was upset with Holloway, and from the time the two met they just didn't mesh well. 

    As far as all the secrecy goes, he was acting under Mr. Wayland, but the one thing that confuses me is why he turned the camera off when in a private feed with Waylands daughter? 

    If you watch the Viral video about David 8 and when he is asked " what makes you sad?" He gives a list and says that he understands human emotions though he can not feel them himself, as he says this a tear goes down his face ( contradiction) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BkV2aFXzYY 
    - If I were to go deeper than that I would say that neither do we feel emotions - love, anger, and happiness all comes from the brain, just a sort of logic that we cant understand. David being made to be as human as possible other than the exception of that that makes him efficient understands emotion all to well. 

    David was not evil, just human. 
  • tifosi77tifosi77  
    Colonist
    burke said:

    tgbyhn said:

    If
    Holloway is willing to do anything and everything to get his answers,
    being an unwitting guinea pig would obviously fall under the broad
    definition of "anything" and "everything".



    yeah I totally got the impression that David asking him what he was
    willing to do overcame his Asimov parameters not to harm humans because
    in the long run it may benefit humans(ie help weyland).
    While I don't disagree that David was seeking tacit between-the-lines permission from Dr. Holloway, I don't think there is anything Asimov-esque about the robots in Ridley Scott's world.

    Skylar said:

    David was made to be as human as possible, and he says this when Holloway asks him why was he putting on a helmet when he didn't need one.



    If I remember the dialog from that scene correctly, David's reply to the question of why he wears the helmet was something like "Because it makes you people more comfortable with me."

    You people.  Not your people.  It's a specific critique of Holloway and those like him.

    Of course, I could be mis-remembering the exchange!
    Perfect organism.
  • SkylarSkylar  
    Colonist
    tifosi77 said:

    burke said:

    tgbyhn said:

    If
    Holloway is willing to do anything and everything to get his answers,
    being an unwitting guinea pig would obviously fall under the broad
    definition of "anything" and "everything".



    yeah I totally got the impression that David asking him what he was
    willing to do overcame his Asimov parameters not to harm humans because
    in the long run it may benefit humans(ie help weyland).
    While I don't disagree that David was seeking tacit between-the-lines permission from Dr. Holloway, I don't think there is anything Asimov-esque about the robots in Ridley Scott's world.

    Skylar said:

    David was made to be as human as possible, and he says this when Holloway asks him why was he putting on a helmet when he didn't need one.



    If I remember the dialog from that scene correctly, David's reply to the question of why he wears the helmet was something like "Because it makes you people more comfortable with me."

    You people.  Not your people.  It's a specific critique of Holloway and those like him.

    Of course, I could be mis-remembering the exchange!


    I think the viral video says a lot about Davids "emotional" state, and the way he speaks through out the whole movie. It could have just been directing style, but I dont think so. 
  • sexysexy  
    Colonist
    trying harder?
  • RedLionRedLion  (1 like this)
    Colonist

    Skylar is right about David.

    David seems to have developped some kind of human emotions. Moreover, I wonder if some noticed David seems to like Shaw very much:

    - He read her dreams. He seems to be very interested about her and her life.

    - The way he was reassuring her when she awakened from the cryostasis.

    - The fact he tried to save her warning her about the engineer coming for her.

    - This phrase he pronounced : "I was afraid you were dead". Afraid ? A machine ?

    So theses are my theories about why he put the black slime in Holloway's drink:

    A - David didn't know the black slime was lethal.

    In this case, he was just testing. Maybe his prime directive ( given surely by Weyland ) was to find anything to cure Weyland state. So he needed subjects. Holloway gracefully accepted to be one by saying he was ready to do "anything and everything" to get his answers. That is the main reason he was chosen by David.

    But I think this theory is not really good. Why ? David seems to be able to read the engineers language. So there is a great probability he knew the black slime effect. This leads to my second theory:


    B - David did know the black slime was lethal.

    In this case, he just wanted to eliminate Holloway.

    As you surely noticed, Androïds in Alien franchise are not tied to the three Asimov rules. So they have the ability to put humans in danger, more, to kill them, if they want.

    But why did David choose Holloway ?

    - He don't like him. Holloway had the bad habit to threat David more than a robot than a human being. Even if David didn't really showed it, he didn't liked it.

    - David is interested in Shaw and he's jealous about the relation between her and Holloway. So he simply kills his direct opponent.

    But this is maybe a mix of the two theories. David wanted to test the black slime and if it was lethal, he was killing two birds with one stone: Eliminating Holloway and seeing the effect of this strange element he discovered on humans.

    David is a very interesting and equivocal character. A last argument about David having human feelings: He answered "I know" when Weyland said "There is nothing" before dying. So logically, there is a great chance he wanted Weyland's death. The big question is "Why ?".

    My blog ( in french ): http://rednetworkblog.net
  • tifosi77tifosi77  (2 like this)
    Colonist

    RedLion said:

    - This phrase he pronounced : "I was afraid you were dead". Afraid ? A machine ?



    I regret not bookmarking who pointed this out last week, because I'd like to give them attribution.  But someone here on the forum noted what I think is the single most important piece of dialog in the film: Shaw asks David if he can fly the Juggernaut and he pauses briefly, but noticeably longer than you'd expect, and says "Yes, I believe I can."

    I believe I can.

    This coupled with the earlier phrase you mention here, RedLion, coming after all the shenanigans with the Engineer, and David saying..... whatever it was he said to the Engineer, and the fact that - for no reason - he kept ahold of Shaw's cross necklace and took it with him to meet the Engineer, the maker of Man.

    David certainly isn't factory-spec anymore, that's for sure.
    Perfect organism.
  • DMP_JayDMP_Jay  (1 like this)
    Colonist
    I agree with the idea that it was simply a test instructed by weyland to infect a crew members to see it's effect.

    And hi, I'm new here.
  • NickIsSmartNickIsSmart  (1 like this)
    Flaming_Telepath
    "As you surely noticed, Androïds in Alien franchise are not tied to the
    three Asimov rules. So they have the ability to put humans in danger,
    more, to kill them, if they want."

    Except Bishop, of course.
    "Oh, hi, Mark."
  • RedLionRedLion  
    Colonist

    Except Bishop, of course.



    I can allow you I never saw in Bishop's behaviour any kind of violence. It doesn't mean he was programmed with the Asimov's rules. I need to rewatch Aliens and Alien 3 anyway.
    My blog ( in french ): http://rednetworkblog.net
  • ricstrrricstrr  (1 like this)
    Colonist
    OT : Someone commented that Holloway should have used a condom *anyway*. Which is not correct. They were in a long term relationship and one of them was not-fertile. When that's the case you both get tested and once cleared ditch the contraception. (I know this because I had the chop after having two kids). Obviously that system fails if one of you is sleeping around, however. Or drinking alien goop.
  • SkylarSkylar  
    Colonist

    David had no agenda.  Weyland had an agenda and David was doing everything to satisfy the requests/commands of Weyland.  Even unethical things.  David was a proxy character for Weyland who was off screen most of the time.


    Now David is free.  Will have have his own agendas based on free will?  Hopefully we find out.


    He's in no way a Weyland's proxy. And that's the reason why everyone is not sure what did he tell to Engineer. Otherwise it would be no-brainer. You just try to push him it that role because he's a goddamn robot and shouldn't be able to act on his own. The only scene, which seems to be demeaning is the one with feet washing, but I guess it can't be worse then holding black nightmare on your fingertips. ;-)
    Also notice that seeing David being ripped apart is much more painful for the audience then watching Weyland die. Even after all what he has done.


    I think David was just considering what to say to the engineer Shaw wanted him to say one thing and Weyland wanted him to say another. I kinda think he asked about immortality following Weylands orders. i just got that feeling. 
  • greyAreagreyArea  
    Colonist
    David was told by Weyland to 'try harder'; what's implied is do more to find out more.  He had the substance from the urn and wanted to see what was down that avenue if pursued but knew there was ethical considerations in terms of experimenting on another human being.  when he posed those questions to Holloway the answer he got was ' because we could!'.

    That statement 'because we could' holds all the ethical considerations David needed to take into account in order to 'experiment' on Holloway.  Holloway therefore became a victim of his own cavalier ethical attitude.

    in short David was intending, in a round about way to find find out if Holloway would be a willing participant in a 'single blind' experiment.

    'Everything and anything!' after all.
  • NickIsSmartNickIsSmart  
    Flaming_Telepath
    RedLion said:

    Except Bishop, of course.



    I can allow you I never saw in Bishop's behaviour any kind of violence. It doesn't mean he was programmed with the Asimov's rules. I need to rewatch Aliens and Alien 3 anyway.


    Well, I'm not familiar with all of the laws, but he was programed never to harm or allow harm to come to a human being.
    "Oh, hi, Mark."
  • RedLionRedLion  
    Colonist

    RedLion said:

    Well, I'm not familiar with all of the laws, but he was programed never to harm or allow harm to come to a human being.



    I remember Bishop saying he was a new model and that Ash had some malfunction. As I don't want to say bullshit, I'm going to watch again Aliens and Alien 3 ( at least the part where Bishop make a brief apparence ). The machines in the alien franchise are very equivocal...

    I'm wondering if the number production 8 of David is a reference to Ripley's tattoo in Alien the Resurrection....

    My blog ( in french ): http://rednetworkblog.net
  • tifosi77tifosi77  
    Colonist
    RedLion said:

    Except Bishop, of course.



    I can allow you I never saw in Bishop's behaviour any kind of violence. It doesn't mean he was programmed with the Asimov's rules. I need to rewatch Aliens and Alien 3 anyway.


    Well he was programmed in at least the first one; he paraphrases it in a line of dialog in an effort to comfort Ripley about his presence aboard the Sulaco.
    Perfect organism.

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